{"id":14220,"date":"2025-09-13T14:39:10","date_gmt":"2025-09-13T18:39:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/?p=14220"},"modified":"2025-09-17T22:05:44","modified_gmt":"2025-09-18T02:05:44","slug":"palestine-on-trial-in-argentina","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/2025\/09\/palestine-on-trial-in-argentina\/","title":{"rendered":"Palestine on trial in Argentina"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> In our last interview, you were about to go on trial and stressed that you wanted to face it head-on rather than accept probation. Could you start by telling us what happened in the trial itself, how you took it on &#8220;head-on,\u201d and what has developed since then?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro Bogart:<\/span> As I said before, we refused to accept any sort of deal. DAIA tried to propose an agreement, but we rejected it outright and refused every negotiation option. These kinds of trials always involve some pre-trial bargaining, but we didn\u2019t go down that road. We believe it\u2019s important to confront these accusations openly and use them as an opportunity to continue fighting for the Palestinian cause.<\/p>\n<p>So far there have been four stages in the courts. In the first, the judge ruled there was no probable cause. He actually defended my right to speak out on the conflict and recommended that no trial be held. But the Appeals Chamber overruled him and ordered the case to proceed. That first trial was the most democratic, because it allowed witnesses. And we brought many: from a Nobel Peace Prize laureate to leaders of the Left, but also members of the Jewish community here in Argentina who are themselves anti-Zionist, and one of the most recognized relatives of the victim of a bombing of a Jewish community center in 1994.<\/p>\n<p>In that first trial, I was acquitted. But DAIA appealed, and the higher court\u2014this time without witnesses, without testimony\u2014convicted me. That\u2019s where things stand today: I am currently under conviction by that tribunal. We appealed, and the hearing took place two months ago, but we are still waiting for a ruling. We don\u2019t know why it is taking so long. They are supposed to decide whether to uphold the conviction or to acquit me.<\/p>\n<aside class=\"pullquote\">Real justice isn\u2019t what gets decided in these courtrooms\u2014it\u2019s what society itself decides. People stop me in the street to show their support. That\u2019s the true verdict.<\/aside>\n<p>Whatever happens, we know there will be further appeals. If the ruling goes in my favor, DAIA will appeal. If it goes against me, we will appeal. Either way, it will go to the highest court. Of course, having two convictions already on the record is not encouraging\u2014up to now it\u2019s been two rulings in my favor, one against. But this is a political case, not one about justice. What I\u2019m doing is denouncing genocide.<\/p>\n<p>In Argentina we know very well what genocide means\u2014we lived through one ourselves. We know the role that judges and politicians played, and how many of those who were accomplices later faced judgment and even imprisonment. That\u2019s what I told the court in my closing statement: that they had to decide whether they wanted to be accomplices to a genocide.<\/p>\n<p>So really, I\u2019m wrongly the one in the dock. The ones who should be there are my accusers, because they are the ones supporting genocide. It should be the President of the Republic on trial, since he has openly endorsed that genocide.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ll see what the court does, but they must know that here in Argentina\u2014as everywhere in the world\u2014the Palestinian cause is growing stronger by the day. Zionism is increasingly isolated, even though it still wields enormous economic power here. In fact, after the United States, Argentina may be the place where it has the greatest influence outside of Israel. That matters. We not only have a pro-Zionist president, but also Zionist organizations with great political and economic weight in Argentina.<\/p>\n<p>We understand this is a political trial. We\u2019ll keep fighting, regardless of the outcome. I\u2019m not particularly optimistic, because the judiciary is deeply compromised\u2014colonized, really\u2014by the political powers of the day, and the current government is openly pro-Zionist.<\/p>\n<p>But real justice isn\u2019t what gets decided in these courtrooms\u2014it\u2019s what society itself decides. People stop me in the street to show their support. That\u2019s the true verdict. For now, we\u2019re waiting for the ruling\u2014hopefully it will come soon. And if it\u2019s negative, we\u2019ll appeal and continue on to the Supreme Court.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_14221\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-14221\" style=\"width: 867px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-14221\" src=\"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Zionism-is-racism.jpg\" alt=\"Concrete block with stenciled message: \u201cFree Palestine. Zionism is racism.\u201d\" width=\"867\" height=\"504\" srcset=\"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Zionism-is-racism.jpg 867w, https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Zionism-is-racism-300x174.jpg 300w, https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Zionism-is-racism-768x446.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 867px) 100vw, 867px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-14221\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Traffic barrier in Hebron, 2011. Image by <a href=\":https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/libertinus\/6086390323\/in\/album-72157626859032220:\">Montecruz Foto<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> At the time, you described your case as a \u201clandmark trial\u201d that could set a dangerous precedent for silencing criticism of Israel. Looking back now, do you think that prediction was accurate? How has your case shaped the political and legal landscape around freedom of expression in Argentina?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro:<\/span> Well, I still believe that. For example, when I was convicted in that second instance, other cases were immediately activated against other people. Another left-wing leader Vanina Biasi, from a different party in the Left Front, for instance, suddenly had a <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/aliner\/status\/1955344946900169124\">case<\/a> launched against her. That didn\u2019t happen when I was acquitted\u2014it only came after my conviction.<\/p>\n<p>I think that, since my case is the most developed, the outcome will determine whether other judges feel encouraged to keep going after other leaders and other voices. What they want is to silence those of us with the greatest reach\u2014those who can connect with people and have access to the media. They want to make an example out of us. In fact, my conviction was circulated worldwide. Zionist media all over the world\u2014even in Israel,<a href=\"https:\/\/www.jpost.com\/diaspora\/article-836093\"> newspapers there<\/a>\u2014reported on that conviction.<\/p>\n<p>So I think that if we manage to overturn it, it will also be a blow against Zionism, because they will have failed to break us. On the contrary, we\u2019ve pushed forward. Here in Argentina, Milei\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/redflag.org.au\/article\/fight-continues-argentina\">attacks on labor and social rights<\/a> were so massive that, for a while, it was difficult for the Palestinian cause to spark large mobilizations.<\/p>\n<p>But that has changed. Recently there have been <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=PBMNrUfJopc\">huge<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/english.wafa.ps\/Pages\/Details\/159235\">demonstrations<\/a> in Argentina, and at the end of this month [August 2025] we will march in one that will be even bigger and more massive. The voices are expanding all the time. Even the media blockade has been broken: People who had previously kept silent have been forced to speak out.<\/p>\n<aside class=\"pullquote\">I also think the courts are taking so much time to hand down the ruling because they know there will be a response \u2026 The solidarity has been enormous \u2026 and it has a constant impact.<\/aside>\n<p>I think this is tied to the global situation, to the <a href=\"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/2025\/08\/the-starvation-of-gaza-is-not-a-glitch-in-the-system\/\">monstrosities Israel is carrying out<\/a>: seeing children starve to death or being shot when they line up for food because they are being deliberately starved. All of that has had a tremendous impact. Just two days ago, they voted to move directly to expel the population\u2014the total ethnic cleansing of Gaza. That will only generate more outrage.<\/p>\n<p>We know that Netanyahu\u2019s government, as it weakens and faces internal crisis\u2014there have even been marches inside Israel\u2014is trying to push forward. The more internal turmoil there is, the more they attempt to get out of it by pushing even harder on this path.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> In our last conversation, you explained how DAIA uses the weaponized International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism. How have you seen their broader strategy played out?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro:<\/span> Yes. That\u2019s DAIA\u2019s main argument\u2014and the broader Zionist argument internationally: to push legal cases and try to change the definition of antisemitism. For them, criticizing the State of Israel is antisemitic. Criticizing Zionism is antisemitic.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s absurd, because it would make Israel the only state in the world that you\u2019re not allowed to criticize. If you do, you risk going to prison. You can criticize any of the other two hundred states on Earth\u2014except Israel. The same goes for Zionism: It\u2019s a far-right political ideology. You can criticize any other political current in the world with no problem, but if you criticize Zionism\u2014which is not the same as the Jewish people, because the Jewish people are divided; some are Zionist, but many are anti-Zionist\u2014they come after you.<\/p>\n<p>They\u2019re using this strategy to try to silence criticism.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> You also stressed that Milei\u2019s government had given this repression new traction. Almost a year later, how do you see the relationship between the Milei government, Zionist organizations like DAIA, and the broader attacks on democratic rights?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro:<\/span> Well, just recently\u2014about a month ago\u2014Milei was awarded the \u201cJewish Nobel Prize\u201d [the Genesis Prize, created in conjunction with the Israeli state] for supporting the State of Israel, along with a prize of one million dollars. He is deeply tied to Israel. I\u2019d say he is, along with Trump, the political figure most identified with the Israeli state.<\/p>\n<p>He even tried to bring Netanyahu here. He invited him, though Netanyahu pulled back a bit when he realized such a visit could trigger massive mobilizations in Argentina. But it hasn\u2019t been ruled out. The government\u2019s plan is still to bring Netanyahu. That would be outrageous, given that Netanyahu is under indictment by the International Criminal Court. We\u2019ll see if they dare.<\/p>\n<p>Milei is fully in tow to Zionism, and he has the mass media completely lined up. All the outlets here display the Israeli flag, and some of the political programs most closely linked to the government openly function as propaganda machines, spreading lies and portraying Israel as the victim.<\/p>\n<aside class=\"pullquote\">Today we live under a very repressive state \u2026 Peaceful demonstrations are brutally repressed \u2026 We are living through a change of regime in Argentina.<\/aside>\n<p>And the courts back all of this, because they have the political power of the government behind them. There is no such thing as independent justice anywhere in the world\u2014least of all in Argentina. The judiciary here has always been tied to power. Let\u2019s remember: during the dictatorship, while people were disappearing, the courts looked the other way. They have always been complicit with the government of the day.<\/p>\n<p>That is what sustains all of this. And yes, the repression goes beyond the Palestinian cause. This government has changed the regime. It is no longer the same bourgeois-democratic regime that existed before Milei took office. There has been a shift. Today we live under a very repressive state. Practically every mobilization ends with people being detained\u2014people who have done practically nothing. Peaceful demonstrations are brutally repressed. They are even building intelligence services that investigate people without going through the courts. We are living through a change of regime in Argentina.<\/p>\n<p>What they haven\u2019t achieved, despite all of this, is stopping the mobilizations. On the contrary, they are growing. Just this afternoon I came from a demonstration in front of Congress. There are emblematic struggles, many of them led by the Left. Our comrades have been leading the main conflict for the past three months: the fight to defend the country\u2019s most important pediatric hospital, which this government wants to dismantle. The attack is brutal\u2014but so too is the resistance of the people.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> How has the solidarity campaign around your case developed? What lessons do you think the Left, both in Argentina and internationally, should take from your experience in facing this kind of repression?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro:<\/span> Well, there\u2019s been very broad unity around my case, across the entire Left. All of the Left has stood in solidarity, and that has allowed us to develop countless actions and mobilizations. Practically every action in support of Palestine\u2014and here there are marches almost every day\u2014includes my case. In fact, there is hardly a single demonstration where one of the slogans isn\u2019t about my freedom, where there isn\u2019t a repudiation of this criminalization.<\/p>\n<aside class=\"pullquote\">In my view, Israel is very isolated. It is managing to massacre people\u2014children included\u2014but it is not managing to win, because every child they kill brings more people over to the Palestinian cause.<\/aside>\n<p>That has been very important. As I mentioned, the number of witnesses who testified in my favor included very prominent figures in the country: people from the Jewish community, artists, and political leaders from across the broader Left. From the center-left there\u2019s been a little support, but very little\u2014they\u2019ve been quite cowardly. But the Left has real weight, and that has been decisive.<\/p>\n<p>I also think the courts are taking so much time to hand down the ruling because they know there will be a response. And now we\u2019re starting to see the same kind of unity building around the new cases being opened, like that of Vanina Biasi. The solidarity has been enormous\u2014really enormous\u2014and it has a constant impact.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> Finally, how do you see your case fitting into the global picture \u2014 where we\u2019ve seen attacks on Palestine solidarity in the U.S., Europe, and elsewhere? Do you see signs that this repression is weakening, or is it intensifying?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro:<\/span> It\u2019s hard for me to measure whether it\u2019s getting better or worse, but I think it certainly continues. For example, in the United Kingdom they outlawed Palestine Action, a direct action group organizing mostly against weapons manufacturers, accusing it of being \u201cterrorist.\u201d And because there was <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/uk-news\/2025\/aug\/22\/palestine-action-ban-protesters-defend-our-juries-plan-street-bail-police\">so much solidarity<\/a> in response, they\u2019ve now turned to labeling everyone who defends that organization as a terrorist too.<\/p>\n<p>I think there\u2019s a global double standard at work. Governments, under social pressure, say they will recognize Palestine as a state\u2014two states, etc.\u2014but at the same time they keep sending weapons. They criticize Netanyahu\u2019s actions, but then repress those who defend the Palestinian cause. They need to repress, because they need that state not to collapse.<\/p>\n<p>In my view, Israel is very isolated. It is managing to massacre people\u2014children included\u2014but it is not managing to win, because every child they kill brings more people over to the Palestinian cause. Politically, Israel is increasingly isolated internationally. That\u2019s why I think they\u2019ll keep trying to silence us. But for every one voice they manage to silence, a hundred more appear. And then there are people like us \u2014 \u201ccrazy\u201d people like us\u2014who will never be silenced.<\/p>\n<p>I told the judge in my case: if you convict me, I will keep saying exactly the same thing. So you\u2019ll have to convict me again for repeat offense. And if that means going to prison for refusing to stay silent, then that\u2019s what we must do\u2014because it\u2019s part of supporting the Palestinian cause.<\/p>\n<p>There are artists, for instance, in Ireland and the United Kingdom, who use their <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/music\/2025\/jul\/17\/massive-attack-announce-alliance-of-musicians-speaking-out-over-gaza\">platforms<\/a> to speak out about Gaza and to defend Palestine Action, and the British government <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/books\/2025\/aug\/18\/author-sally-rooney-to-donate-funds-to-palestine-action\">threatens<\/a> to label those artists terrorists as well. But they keep doing it, because many people are willing to make sacrifices for this cause, even at personal risk.<\/p>\n<p>That shows why Israel will lose. Strategically, it has already lost, because it can no longer fool the world into believing it is the victim. More and more people around the globe know this is genocide, and that Israel\u2019s very existence as a state is being questioned.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Anderson and brian:<\/span> Thank you, is there anything else you want to add?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"dropcap-speaker\">Alejandro:<\/span> I just want to emphasize that this cause belongs to humanity as a whole. It goes beyond ideology\u2014even beyond those of us on the Left. For nearly eighty years we\u2019ve been raising the banner of solidarity with Palestine, but for a long time it was the cause of a small minority. Today, it\u2019s a cause of the masses worldwide.<\/p>\n<p>I think anyone with even the most basic sense of humanity has to stand with the Palestinian people. As we often say here: If someone saw a child in the street and then saw another person come up and shoot that child in the head, everyone would be horrified\u2014no one would jump to defend the killer of an innocent child. Yet that\u2019s exactly what\u2019s happening. Right now, twenty-eight children are dying every day in Palestine.<\/p>\n<p>That reality moves people deeply, and I believe it is fueling a global rebellion that sooner or later will bring down the monster. We have to keep going forward.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_14222\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-14222\" style=\"width: 968px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-14222\" src=\"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Free-Palestine-Bethlehem-wall.jpg\" alt=\"Large gray concrete wall looms overhead, and \u201cFree Palestine\u201d is painted across the bottom.\" width=\"968\" height=\"651\" srcset=\"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Free-Palestine-Bethlehem-wall.jpg 968w, https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Free-Palestine-Bethlehem-wall-300x202.jpg 300w, https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Free-Palestine-Bethlehem-wall-768x516.jpg 768w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 968px) 100vw, 968px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-14222\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The apartheid wall in Bethlehem (2011). Image by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/libertinus\/8236191472\/in\/album-72157626859032220\">Montecruz Foto.<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<hr class=\"half\">\n<small><em>Opinions expressed in signed articles do not necessarily represent the views of the editors or the Tempest Collective. For more information, see \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.tempestmag.org\/about\/\">About Tempest Collective<\/a>.\u201d<\/em><\/small><br \/>\n<small>Featured Image credit: <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Demostraciones_en_apoyo_a_Palestina_en_la_Marcha_del_24_de_marzo_02.jpg\">Gast\u00f3n Cuello<\/a>; modified by Tempest.<\/small><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As Argentina continues to arrest peaceful protesters, socialist <strong>Alejandro Bodart<\/strong> speaks to Tempest again about the criminalization of himself and other advocates of Palestinian freedom.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":336,"featured_media":14224,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[4,8],"tags":[270,349,540],"class_list":["post-14220","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-article","category-interview","tag-argentina","tag-latin-america","tag-palestine-solidarity"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/09\/Copy-of-tempest_feature_card.jpg-6.jpg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14220","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/336"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=14220"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14220\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/14224"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=14220"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=14220"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tempestmag.org\/test02\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=14220"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}